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  • Mafia Game posted an info-graphic on their social media showing a family tree for all Mafia Series crime families. Seeing as much of the information is not supported by the games themselves, we need to discuss whether or not it should be included here and entered into our official canon.

    I've already noticed a few discrepancies, but I'll hold off on commenting further until I've had more time to look it over. You can see the graphic here: File:Mafia-Crime-Family-Tree-Franchise.pdf.

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    • Well, I still haven't fact checked it all, but there's several characters listed as deceased that didn't die in the game, Frank Vinci to name but one, but they give no further information on how or when he died. I'm not sure if they're going with the date of Mafia III for that chart or not, I could see how Vinci could have died over the last 17 years, but then again it seems like more of the characters from the first Mafia would have been long dead too. They even have a few from there listed as imprisoned, surely after 30 years they would have either been released or died in prison. There's also names on the Mafia II lists I've never seen before, even in the Frankie Potts files.

      There's quite a few comments on both their Twitter and Facebook feeds calling out the inaccuracies of the chart, so I'm not alone in questioning it. Our policy on characters and crime families has always been that we list their status as it was at the end of the game unless they're mentioned in a later one. Seeing as that chart gives nothing in the way of an explanation I see no reason to change that just now.

      They have Joe listed as unknown, so I guess they're going along with this conspiracy theory that he may still be alive. Don't really care either way mind you, but before the game was released Haden Blackman said multiple times in interviews that if you did Vito's side mission you would definitely find out what happened to Joe, then the game comes out and they leave just that little hint of vagueness in it. Now they're insinuating that he may be alive. The only thing all of that proves to me is that Blackman lied.

      What really gets me on this is that 2K/Hangar 13 obviously frequent this wiki, most of the images they used on that chart came from here, yet they've never made any effort to liaise with us on anything. Maybe if they did we could sort out some of these issues.

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    • Hey Reap, as the family tree mentions, it says Lincoln's Crime Family is a legitimate family. As you remember I had made a page for it, but it was removed due to lack of canonical evidence. If the wiki agrees this family tree to be official, is it possible for the page be restored and improved?

      I hope that after the release of this tree chart, the page can be viewed as a good faith edit, despite it not being of the wiki's standards. All I want is to be seen in the same light as any other user, respected as as any other member of the wiki community.

      Thanks.

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    • Editorguy wrote: Hey Reap, as the family tree mentions, it says Lincoln's Crime Family is a legitimate family. As you remember I had made a page for it, but it was removed due to lack of canonical evidence. If the wiki agrees this family tree to be official, can the page be restored and improved?

      Thanks.

      It's a possibility. As I stated above though, this chart isn't all it's cracked up to be. For example, in regard to the Clay Family, it's listing Sammy and Ellis under it. Obviously they were not, nor could they be members of a family that didn't exist yet. It's also listing all the outliers under Clay or Marcano. So by this chart the Dixie Mafia, Southern Union, Black Mob, Haitian Mob etc. aren't individual organizations.

      We may just need to see if the DLCs shed more light on things because this chart brings up more questions than it answers.

      EDIT: I meant to add that you're free to give your input on this issue, same for anyone else.

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    • ReapTheChaos wrote:

      Editorguy wrote: Hey Reap, as the family tree mentions, it says Lincoln's Crime Family is a legitimate family. As you remember I had made a page for it, but it was removed due to lack of canonical evidence. If the wiki agrees this family tree to be official, can the page be restored and improved?

      Thanks.

      It's a possibility. As I stated above though, this chart isn't all it's cracked up to be. For example, in regard to the Clay Family, it's listing Sammy and Ellis under it. Obviously they were not, nor could they be members of a family that didn't exist yet. It's also listing all the outliers under Clay or Marcano. So by this chart the Dixie Mafia, Southern Union, Black Mob, Haitian Mob etc. aren't individual organizations.

      We may just need to see if the DLCs shed more light on things because this chart brings up more questions than it answers.

      Yeah that makes sense, it is a bit confusing as to where the characters are listed on it. And why the capos are not separated from the lieutenants.

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    • I've looked over the whole tree, and while this may not be quite my final opinion, my initial thought is that we should stick with our standard policy of only using info from the actual games. I'd like to take a day or two to let it all sink in, and then I'll be ready to address some more specific details.

      Also, can you tell me some specific names you don't think you've seen before? I believe I've seen all of them in one place or another.

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    • Qstlijku wrote: Also, can you tell me some specific names you don't think you've seen before? I believe I've seen all of them in one place or another.

      I'll have to go over it again later, I've since found a couple of them though.

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    • Editorguy wrote: Hey Reap, as the family tree mentions, it says Lincoln's Crime Family is a legitimate family. As you remember I had made a page for it, but it was removed due to lack of canonical evidence. If the wiki agrees this family tree to be official, is it possible for the page be restored and improved?

      One more thing on this, if we do make such a page, we will likely have to come up with something besides "Clay Crime Family" or discuss changing our current policy. Up until now, our standard was to use "Crime Family" for traditional Italian Mafia organizations, which Lincoln's "family" is obviously not. We will need to discuss whether to adjust that standard or pick another term, like Criminal Organization, or simply Organization, perhaps Empire or even just Clay Family, dropping the word Crime.

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    • ReapTheChaos wrote:

      Editorguy wrote: Hey Reap, as the family tree mentions, it says Lincoln's Crime Family is a legitimate family. As you remember I had made a page for it, but it was removed due to lack of canonical evidence. If the wiki agrees this family tree to be official, is it possible for the page be restored and improved?

      One more thing on this, if we do make such a page, we will likely have to come up with something besides "Clay Crime Family" or discuss changing our current policy. Up until now, our standard was to use "Crime Family" for traditional Italian Mafia organizations, which Lincoln's "family" is obviously not. We will need to discuss whether to adjust that standard or pick another term, like Criminal Organization, or simply Organization, perhaps Empire or even just Clay Family, dropping the word Crime.

      Could be Clay Crime Syndicate.

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    • This graphic for the Crime Families is, in my opinion, very messy. The Lincoln Clay family just seems like every character that was an enemy of Marcano, and the Mafia and Mafia 2 crime families look like they put anyone who's ever been associated with the families. They put Mr. Chu on the Vinci family, Sidney Pen on the Clemente family and each family's bartenders.

      Also it's not very clear each family member's position, from what I understood, the Morello family graphic lists Sergio Morello Jr. and Joey as being at the same position, probably Underboss and Consigliere or vice-versa, which is very clearly wrong. The Salieri family lists Sam and Frank Colletti at the same position, which could be that Frank is the Consigliere and Sam is the Underboss, but that's not very likely for Sam.

      Also, according to the graphic Vito would be a Soldato/Associate of the Vinci family and Joe a Soldato/Associate of the Clemente family. They don't appear on the Falcone family graphic. The Vinci family graphic puts Derek Pappalardo and Steve Coyne at the same position, and Steve is not even an official member while Derek is a capo.

      In my opinion we should just ignore this graphic.

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    • Master of the Night wrote: In my opinion we should just ignore this graphic.

      You made a lot of good points that I had noticed myself. The main things are Vito being listed under Vinci, yet he was exiled by The Commission to New Bordeaux after Falcone's death, where he immediately went to work for Marcano, so when was he working for Vinci? He killed Falcone on Leo's orders, which supposedly came from The Commission. I don't see how that makes him part of the Vinci family. Then Joe is listed under Clemente, when he stopped working for them in 1945 and was never actually a made member anyway.

      Other discrepancies, no particular order:

      • They list the Saliere family as being active through "present" yet give no date of reference. Our definition of present is the end of the game until we learn otherwise. The Saliere family was last heard from in Mafia II, so as far as we know they were still active in 1951. That is their "present".
      • They list Vinci as deceased yet the Vinci family as active through present, again with no date of reference. In the Mafia Game universe, when the boss of the family dies the name dies with him, there is no precedent for the name being carried on by the next boss. Frank Vinci had no living male heir that we're aware of.
      • Numerous characters listed as deceased or imprisoned that didn't occur in-game, again with no dates of reference or explanation.
      • They don't list Rocco anywhere, despite listing Richie Mazzeo from Joe's Adventures.
      • Lists The Money Thief as imprisoned when he was killed in-game.
      • Incorrect character models shown for Jackie Grimaldi, Gina Kowalski and Maria Bava.
      • Ritchie Doucet is listed after Olivia Marcano when the game clearly stated that Giorgi was the one who put him in charge of Delray Hollow, in fact, it's the only thing the game lists for Giorgi being in charge of.
      • As Master of the Night pointed out above, it looks as if they simply listed any ally under the family they helped. Idiot Joe is a good example of that, at best he was a reluctant informant who only gave Tommy information after being beaten.
      • Many of those listed under Lincoln were deceased before he put together his own criminal empire.
      • As far as the Mafia III lists, most on the Marcano list and a few on Lincoln's are deceased, but not listed as such. I guess they didn't want list any spoilers.

      I concur with Master of the Night, we should ignore this info-graphic as a whole. There's just too many inconsistencies to take any of it as canon.

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    • This is extremely messy, it listed people who were killed in Mafia 1 (the thief) and mafia 2/frankie potts files (grossano) as imprisoned and even salieri is listed as still imprisoned, like you'd think he'd be dead by now. And like as someone else pointed out, the ranking system seems kinda weird like the whole frank and sam being the same but as for the peppone family, I think they put morello and salieri at the same level because they might've both been capos but I could be wrong about that. Except, my thought onto as why they might've put Frank and Sam next to each other because they could possibly have been the members with the most "pull" or influence in the family besides the boss and are two major members of the hierarchy being a consigliere and the only capo mentioned in the mafia game; if that makes any sense as a reasonable explanation. And I guess that could also be an explanation for sergio jr and joey being side-by-side too. And the worse part about this graphic is the mafia 3 families, it looked like they tried with the first two games and gave up on the mafia 3 ones and just jumbled everyone together. And your thought (from the new joe's fate post) on it might being fan made and hanger 13 just accepted it seems like the most reasonable explanation to me unless they just wanted to redo whose dead and whose alive in the whole series and screw up the canon. Hangar 13 has really been screwing up imo

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    • I originally planned to make a list of discrepancies I noticed, but most of them are already posted above. Here's some that aren't:

      • The Falcone family is listed as being active since 1913, but that was actually when the Moretti family was founded, and Falcone took over in 1933.
      • More of an observation than a discrepancy, but Father James and John Donovan are listed separately under Clay's family, as are Giorgi Marcano and Nino Santangelo with the Marcano family. Because Donovan and Father James are like associates of Lincoln, I had the idea that we could consider Santangelo as an associate of the Marcanos, though that wouldn't apply to Giorgi.

      To summarize, I also think we should ignore the graphic.

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    • Just to note, this graphic has also been uploaded to the official Mafia Game website, mafiagame.com. I don't really see that changing much, official or not it's still full of errors and no attempt has been made to correct or explain them.

      They've also made one specifically for the Marcano crime family with a slightly different layout, it seems accurate enough, but it's just laid out by district and doesn't show what Lieutenants worked under which capo. I'll give a week or so and see if they upload one for Lincoln and go from there, we may upload that one here just as a reference.

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    • Well it's been about a month since this was brought up for discussion. The overall consensus is that the information is simply too inaccurate and with no further corrections or clarification form the people over at the Mafia Game site, I think our official response to this issue will be to ignore this info-graphic as a whole. It will be left uploaded here as a reference but no part of it, nor any of its information, will be used on our pages or considered canon to the Mafia Series.

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    • I know I'm a little late to this party but decided I'd give my two cents anyway. I thought this graphic was good in the sense that it lays out the characters from the series, but the positives really stop there. It's so messy, and to be quite honest, the fact that this is up on an official game website lowers my opinion of 2k and Hangar 13. I'm not going to regurgitate discrepancies that have already been mentioned, I'll just list those that I see that have yet to be mentioned.

      -there are no ranks listed for any character, besides the obvious red outline on the headshots of the Dons. Some examples where this causes problems: this graphic puts Leo Galante, Eddie Scarpa, and Luca Garino on the same level, even though Leo is a consigliere, Eddie is an underboss, and Luca is a capo. It also puts Giorgi Marcano and Nino Santangelo on the same level, even though Giorgi is an underboss and Santangelo is a heroin dealer/hitman, and is not a made member of the Marcano family. -there are no "deceased" tags on Baka, Danny Burke, or on Sammy and Ellis Robinson -Baka was killed by Lincoln and therefore never worked for him -the Gravina family is from Jimmy's Vendetta and I believe was factually stated as being from a separate canon from the regular Mafia universe -there is no mention of the Moretti family from which Carlo Falcone originated from, nor is there one from the family Sal Marcano eliminated to take control of New Bordeaux (can't remember their name) -adding to the whole problem with no ranks listed, there is no distinction between made men and associates, making it seem as though they are on the same level

      Clearly, this should not be taken as canon and needs to be massively cleaned up and sorted out before we can. I think they could take a lesson from The Godfather wiki. Over there all family trees have ranks, which each solider under a certain capo and so on, and associates are listed separately. Furthermore, they have years active at certain positions listed as well. They could also add which cities these families are from. The best way to make it would be to make it so someone who has never played the game before could look at this tree and know what's up.

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    • Sorry for the middle paragraph mess I'm on an iPad and don't have access to "tab" keys so I thought by hitting enter and making a dash it would separate everything

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    • I don't know if any of you have seen, but they took down the graphic on the Family Tree section of the official website. All that is there now is a small blurb about the major characters. I guess they finally realized/had enough people explaining all the holes to them.

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    • RedWoodmp3 wrote: I don't know if any of you have seen, but they took down the graphic on the Family Tree section of the official website. All that is there now is a small blurb about the major characters. I guess they finally realized/had enough people explaining all the holes to them.

      Always knew it was garbage. I knew they'd never announce the death of a major Mafia II character (Frank Vinci) via their website and social media, though based off of the Joe mess, it seems like something Hangar 13 WOULD do. I'm very confident they got their data from this Wiki, we should at least be proud of that I suppose.

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    • I just don't get why they had it up for that long. It was obviously wrong on so many levels, we could probably make an accurate family tree in an hour, really isn't all that difficult if you've paid attention.

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    • A FANDOM user
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